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	<title>Comments on: Basic economic security?</title>
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	<description>dc mom/policy wonk&#039;s musings on work, parenthood, gender, politics, and the rest of life</description>
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		<title>By: Kris Pearson</title>
		<link>http://halfchangedworld.com/2010/10/basic-economic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-6117</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 21:08:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://halfchangedworld.com/?p=1171#comment-6117</guid>
		<description>I have to say - living in NYC - I am not horrified by people who make $100,000 complaining. Indeed I can&#039;t imagine raising a family here on that little, without serious compromises (e.g. not living in an adequately good school district, having a commute so horrifyingly long that one parent never sees the kids). $150k here will give you the same quality of life that $50k would in Kansas City or Denver. It&#039;s sort of like being on the pound while the rest of the country&#039;s on the dollar. A factor left out is how the adults in the family get to their income level. The $108k job - or even the $54k job - probably involved grad school, and grad school debt; it&#039;s unrealistic not to put at least some educational debt into the young-family budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say &#8211; living in NYC &#8211; I am not horrified by people who make $100,000 complaining. Indeed I can&#8217;t imagine raising a family here on that little, without serious compromises (e.g. not living in an adequately good school district, having a commute so horrifyingly long that one parent never sees the kids). $150k here will give you the same quality of life that $50k would in Kansas City or Denver. It&#8217;s sort of like being on the pound while the rest of the country&#8217;s on the dollar. A factor left out is how the adults in the family get to their income level. The $108k job &#8211; or even the $54k job &#8211; probably involved grad school, and grad school debt; it&#8217;s unrealistic not to put at least some educational debt into the young-family budget.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://halfchangedworld.com/2010/10/basic-economic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-6112</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:31:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://halfchangedworld.com/?p=1171#comment-6112</guid>
		<description>Hi -- I thought you stopped blogging but it was a problem with my feed reader! Hope you don&#039;t mind my commenting on an old post.

I&#039;m a technical contractor and my husband is management-level at a very small company (under 30 employees). We pay over $500/mo. for health insurance for a family of 4. That&#039;s employer-provided health insurance. 

Just as a single data point!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi &#8212; I thought you stopped blogging but it was a problem with my feed reader! Hope you don&#8217;t mind my commenting on an old post.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a technical contractor and my husband is management-level at a very small company (under 30 employees). We pay over $500/mo. for health insurance for a family of 4. That&#8217;s employer-provided health insurance. </p>
<p>Just as a single data point!</p>
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		<title>By: dave.s.</title>
		<link>http://halfchangedworld.com/2010/10/basic-economic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-6095</link>
		<dc:creator>dave.s.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://halfchangedworld.com/?p=1171#comment-6095</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Sarah - I think you are undercounting child care - with 2 parents working we need to pay after-school program for our elementary kid.  Or at least, you, with a stay-at-home parent, don&#039;t have the cost, but many people get to $100000 by having both parents work.

Nothing here about eldercare - some of our peers are cobbling together $4-5 thousand a month for an aging parent.  With siblings, that&#039;s a lot more reachable than if you are an only child.   It&#039;s hugely variable, our parents saved enough to get them through their last illnesses.  If your parents pulled every dime out of their house with HELOCs (think cute bumper sticker: &quot;we&#039;re spending our children&#039;s inheritance&quot; on a car with Florida plates) and went on cruises, and now they need you, that&#039;s a kick in the butt.

Benefits are huge, as you know better than I - a real estate agent and a handyman, each self-employed, would be looking at over a thousand a month, and God help them if they have a special needs kid.  

We&#039;re later in the family life cycle than some - 2 of ours are in middle school, so aftercare has gone away, we bought our house a long time ago before the Great Run-up, student loans are a distant memory.  And I have benefits, which cover our family (I tell my self-employed wife that she really NEEDS her &#039;husband with benefits&#039;...)  So a hundred thousand looks plausible.  One size definitely does not fit all, here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Sarah &#8211; I think you are undercounting child care &#8211; with 2 parents working we need to pay after-school program for our elementary kid.  Or at least, you, with a stay-at-home parent, don&#8217;t have the cost, but many people get to $100000 by having both parents work.</p>
<p>Nothing here about eldercare &#8211; some of our peers are cobbling together $4-5 thousand a month for an aging parent.  With siblings, that&#8217;s a lot more reachable than if you are an only child.   It&#8217;s hugely variable, our parents saved enough to get them through their last illnesses.  If your parents pulled every dime out of their house with HELOCs (think cute bumper sticker: &#8220;we&#8217;re spending our children&#8217;s inheritance&#8221; on a car with Florida plates) and went on cruises, and now they need you, that&#8217;s a kick in the butt.</p>
<p>Benefits are huge, as you know better than I &#8211; a real estate agent and a handyman, each self-employed, would be looking at over a thousand a month, and God help them if they have a special needs kid.  </p>
<p>We&#8217;re later in the family life cycle than some &#8211; 2 of ours are in middle school, so aftercare has gone away, we bought our house a long time ago before the Great Run-up, student loans are a distant memory.  And I have benefits, which cover our family (I tell my self-employed wife that she really NEEDS her &#8216;husband with benefits&#8217;&#8230;)  So a hundred thousand looks plausible.  One size definitely does not fit all, here.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://halfchangedworld.com/2010/10/basic-economic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-6078</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 15:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://halfchangedworld.com/?p=1171#comment-6078</guid>
		<description>&quot;Once you ditch daycare costs, you have to add back extracurricular fees and summer camps. But those “necessities” barely existed in my world back in the late 1970s.&quot;

That&#039;s probably because there were far fewer two-income couples. Why the scare quotes around necessities? With two school aged children and both parents working, what do you propose to do with them between 3:30 and 6 every weekday and all day long all summer that&#039;s going to be free?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Once you ditch daycare costs, you have to add back extracurricular fees and summer camps. But those “necessities” barely existed in my world back in the late 1970s.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s probably because there were far fewer two-income couples. Why the scare quotes around necessities? With two school aged children and both parents working, what do you propose to do with them between 3:30 and 6 every weekday and all day long all summer that&#8217;s going to be free?</p>
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		<title>By: Jody</title>
		<link>http://halfchangedworld.com/2010/10/basic-economic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-6076</link>
		<dc:creator>Jody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://halfchangedworld.com/?p=1171#comment-6076</guid>
		<description>Those numbers sound about right to me, although we pay less for health insurance and cars.

I agree with you that household items can be a lower percentage, although maybe if you average out the seasonal clothes shopping, that&#039;s not true?

Once you ditch daycare costs, you have to add back extracurricular fees and summer camps.  But those &quot;necessities&quot; barely existed in my world back in the late 1970s.  (I mean, there was church camp, but that was cheap, and after-school classes at the school, but those were free.  Then again, I still regret not having taken piano lessons.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those numbers sound about right to me, although we pay less for health insurance and cars.</p>
<p>I agree with you that household items can be a lower percentage, although maybe if you average out the seasonal clothes shopping, that&#8217;s not true?</p>
<p>Once you ditch daycare costs, you have to add back extracurricular fees and summer camps.  But those &#8220;necessities&#8221; barely existed in my world back in the late 1970s.  (I mean, there was church camp, but that was cheap, and after-school classes at the school, but those were free.  Then again, I still regret not having taken piano lessons.)</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne</title>
		<link>http://halfchangedworld.com/2010/10/basic-economic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-6071</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Oct 2010 01:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://halfchangedworld.com/?p=1171#comment-6071</guid>
		<description>I have to say - living in NYC - I am not horrified by people who make $100,000 complaining. Indeed I can&#039;t imagine raising a family here on that little, without serious compromises (e.g. not living in an adequately good school district, having a commute so horrifyingly long that one parent never sees the kids).  $150k here will give you the same quality of life that $50k would in Kansas City or Denver. It&#039;s sort of like being on the pound while the rest of the country&#039;s on the dollar.

A factor left out is how the adults in the family get to their income level. The $108k job - or even the $54k job - probably involved grad school, and grad school debt; it&#039;s unrealistic not to put at least some educational debt into the young-family budget.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say &#8211; living in NYC &#8211; I am not horrified by people who make $100,000 complaining. Indeed I can&#8217;t imagine raising a family here on that little, without serious compromises (e.g. not living in an adequately good school district, having a commute so horrifyingly long that one parent never sees the kids).  $150k here will give you the same quality of life that $50k would in Kansas City or Denver. It&#8217;s sort of like being on the pound while the rest of the country&#8217;s on the dollar.</p>
<p>A factor left out is how the adults in the family get to their income level. The $108k job &#8211; or even the $54k job &#8211; probably involved grad school, and grad school debt; it&#8217;s unrealistic not to put at least some educational debt into the young-family budget.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://halfchangedworld.com/2010/10/basic-economic-security/comment-page-1/#comment-6045</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 03:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://halfchangedworld.com/?p=1171#comment-6045</guid>
		<description>Maybe &quot;economically secure&quot; and &quot;just getting by&quot; is the difference between being able to weather some rough storms.  I&#039;m not familiar with Fairfax County, but I agree that I&#039;d hate for someone making over $100,000 to be complaining regardless of where they live.  There are a lot of factors- is that 2 parents earning a combined $108,000 or one salary leaving the other available for child care, homework help, more household duties.  The medical expenses seemed to be a minimum even for employer-subsidized care.   

To me, a big factor in one&#039;s perception of income is whether there is some capacity to earn more should circumstances call for it - could you find work in a more profitable field/employer, could you increase hours, could your spouse earn more money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe &#8220;economically secure&#8221; and &#8220;just getting by&#8221; is the difference between being able to weather some rough storms.  I&#8217;m not familiar with Fairfax County, but I agree that I&#8217;d hate for someone making over $100,000 to be complaining regardless of where they live.  There are a lot of factors- is that 2 parents earning a combined $108,000 or one salary leaving the other available for child care, homework help, more household duties.  The medical expenses seemed to be a minimum even for employer-subsidized care.   </p>
<p>To me, a big factor in one&#8217;s perception of income is whether there is some capacity to earn more should circumstances call for it &#8211; could you find work in a more profitable field/employer, could you increase hours, could your spouse earn more money.</p>
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